Aaron Renn wrote an interesting piece today observing that Evangelicalism does not seem to produce elites. In this piece I share some thoughts on why I think this is the case.
The other week went to an event in DC with conservative elites in business and government. I was not surprised to see that almost everyone in attendance was Catholic.
I grew up Southern Baptist and while I have much love for them, the dispensational undercurrent runs through everything and IMO, it causes people with elite potential to abstain from getting involved in the culture. There's a tendency to hunker down and wait for the rapture; that mindset does not encourage our best and brightest to shape the culture, but to shield oneself from it.
I am in the process of converting to Catholicism, which is not a decision I take lightly. I will say as a striver, I've felt uncomfortable in most evangelical circles. It's not that I'm better or smarter than anyone else, but the lack of intellectualism, coupled with the disdain for creeds and tradition, has been a huge turn off. It's like everyone intentionally decided to turn their brains off. I couldn't do it anymore.
I’m leaving evangelicalism for a church in the reformed tradition. I think at this point evangelicalism has run its course, and I’d rather focus my efforts on trying to restore conservative Magisterial Protestantism as a force than living in the dying corpse of evangelicalism.
"Roman Catholics, on the other hand, have Notre Dame"
Not for very long, unfortunately: "The University of Notre Dame has removed its long-standing expectation that staff should 'understand, accept and support' its Catholic mission." (few weeks ago)
"So, to engage in serious study in any field, you have to leave the Evangelical world behind you."
Or, more probably, they will kick you out. I know many Christian intellectuals from Evangelical circles, and they get huge opposition from other Evangelicals / fundamentalists. William Lane Craig might be a good example: if we had a hundred like him, there wouldn't be an elite problem. And how many times did I have to read about his "heresy" of adhering to C. S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity"?
"Utilitarianism"
Producing an elite cannot be a primary goal, only a side-effect of solving these problems. In the last 60-70 years, Christian Philosophy has been resurrected at academia, mostly due to a handful of Christian philosophers. Plantinga might be the most important of these, but Craig also played (and plays) a role. I think it's great – but it's a multi-generational project. How interesting that "utilitarianism" never refers to something that "works but we won't see it". A bit strange for a Christian movement.
That’s a great point. When I started asking intellectual questions in my former Baptist church on topics like the importance of church history, creeds, the authority of the church, and old earth creationism, I was given trite and simplistic responses. I could tell my questions were not welcome; furthermore no one even attempted to try and answer my questions. It was like, We don’t wanna go there. Shut up and color.”
The problem is that smart people don’t like that response. I’ll fully acknowledge that I don’t have the answers. At the same time I don’t like to be lied to or given a narrative that is just meant to shut me up.
Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. So says Paul the Apostle to the nascent Christians in Corinth, City of the Empire.
We are all like sheep, says Isaiah.
Much of what is written here about present day American evangelicals resonates deeply with me, and for that reason I was pulled into Reformed Presbyterianism. But these “little ones”, the ones of no or little account, who yet are faithful to the extent of their understanding, will be entering into the kingdom ahead of a vast host of the “elites”, of whatever variety. I don’t think Jesus is much impressed with our elites, do you?
I’m as much a political animal as anyone on here—PhD in political philosophy, keen interest in all the humane studies, as well as the worrisome muddle of current events. I’m also a Christian. And I note that Socrates and Jesus took similar stances toward this world. Socrates was greatly concerned to turn his young charges away from political life, and ends the night long conversation in Republic with the advice to live in the best city in your mind because it won’t be found here. Jesus had little care for the regime and much care for the souls of the flock, and left virtually no instruction for the polity of either the church or state. The bulk of the people in any given city are not seriously engaged in anything. Chicks needing to be gathered under wings, lost sheep without a clue. And sadly, mostly unsaved, even within evangelicalism. It is true that the thinness of their theology prevents social or intellectual respect but i dont know how much that matters or how much we can do about it. Sound teaching in sound churches, philosophically grounded political rhetoric for those able to comprehend. Only Historic Christianity, Catholic and Protestant, is thick enough to serve. All of which is to say, we are not that far apart. I’m automatically drawn to someone using Greek for a substack moniker.
The problem is, that if the church, the community of believers, has a existential desire to continue as a people, then they are also a body politic. There is no escaping the political for the church.
Totally agree. All the concerns, problems, and pathologies of the larger society are seen in the church. It has ever been so— see the letters of Paul and the notes to the seven churches in John’s Revelation. Also, since we live in an ostensible republic, the political teaching in the Bible must be adjusted to match the regime. That sounds unbiblical but it is a part of wisdom to know how to apply principles to actual cases. That is a big part of the disagreement among Christians
It’s not so much that. There are many good people. It’s a series of historical developments in which this large segment of Christians developed a certain way of doing things that undermines the development of a leadership class.
Necessarily harsh. Evangelicalism has been taken over by Fundamentalist Anabaptists, and it’s causing havoc.
The other week went to an event in DC with conservative elites in business and government. I was not surprised to see that almost everyone in attendance was Catholic.
And there is no reason it couldn’t be all evangelicals.
I grew up Southern Baptist and while I have much love for them, the dispensational undercurrent runs through everything and IMO, it causes people with elite potential to abstain from getting involved in the culture. There's a tendency to hunker down and wait for the rapture; that mindset does not encourage our best and brightest to shape the culture, but to shield oneself from it.
Agreed.
Unfortunately, you are not alone.
I am in the process of converting to Catholicism, which is not a decision I take lightly. I will say as a striver, I've felt uncomfortable in most evangelical circles. It's not that I'm better or smarter than anyone else, but the lack of intellectualism, coupled with the disdain for creeds and tradition, has been a huge turn off. It's like everyone intentionally decided to turn their brains off. I couldn't do it anymore.
I’m leaving evangelicalism for a church in the reformed tradition. I think at this point evangelicalism has run its course, and I’d rather focus my efforts on trying to restore conservative Magisterial Protestantism as a force than living in the dying corpse of evangelicalism.
I have always enjoyed reformed churches.
Absolutely agree
Great analysis. A few points:
"Roman Catholics, on the other hand, have Notre Dame"
Not for very long, unfortunately: "The University of Notre Dame has removed its long-standing expectation that staff should 'understand, accept and support' its Catholic mission." (few weeks ago)
"So, to engage in serious study in any field, you have to leave the Evangelical world behind you."
Or, more probably, they will kick you out. I know many Christian intellectuals from Evangelical circles, and they get huge opposition from other Evangelicals / fundamentalists. William Lane Craig might be a good example: if we had a hundred like him, there wouldn't be an elite problem. And how many times did I have to read about his "heresy" of adhering to C. S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity"?
"Utilitarianism"
Producing an elite cannot be a primary goal, only a side-effect of solving these problems. In the last 60-70 years, Christian Philosophy has been resurrected at academia, mostly due to a handful of Christian philosophers. Plantinga might be the most important of these, but Craig also played (and plays) a role. I think it's great – but it's a multi-generational project. How interesting that "utilitarianism" never refers to something that "works but we won't see it". A bit strange for a Christian movement.
Good thoughts, all of them. This is an important debate. And vital.
That’s a great point. When I started asking intellectual questions in my former Baptist church on topics like the importance of church history, creeds, the authority of the church, and old earth creationism, I was given trite and simplistic responses. I could tell my questions were not welcome; furthermore no one even attempted to try and answer my questions. It was like, We don’t wanna go there. Shut up and color.”
The problem is that smart people don’t like that response. I’ll fully acknowledge that I don’t have the answers. At the same time I don’t like to be lied to or given a narrative that is just meant to shut me up.
Many such cases. Sophisticated, nuanced answers not welcome.
That’s what I’ve found so refreshing about the Catholic Church. The doctrine is rich and the catechisms answer just about any question you could have.
Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. So says Paul the Apostle to the nascent Christians in Corinth, City of the Empire.
We are all like sheep, says Isaiah.
Much of what is written here about present day American evangelicals resonates deeply with me, and for that reason I was pulled into Reformed Presbyterianism. But these “little ones”, the ones of no or little account, who yet are faithful to the extent of their understanding, will be entering into the kingdom ahead of a vast host of the “elites”, of whatever variety. I don’t think Jesus is much impressed with our elites, do you?
No one is arguing that they are not saved. But they are not a people and they are without true leaders.
I’m as much a political animal as anyone on here—PhD in political philosophy, keen interest in all the humane studies, as well as the worrisome muddle of current events. I’m also a Christian. And I note that Socrates and Jesus took similar stances toward this world. Socrates was greatly concerned to turn his young charges away from political life, and ends the night long conversation in Republic with the advice to live in the best city in your mind because it won’t be found here. Jesus had little care for the regime and much care for the souls of the flock, and left virtually no instruction for the polity of either the church or state. The bulk of the people in any given city are not seriously engaged in anything. Chicks needing to be gathered under wings, lost sheep without a clue. And sadly, mostly unsaved, even within evangelicalism. It is true that the thinness of their theology prevents social or intellectual respect but i dont know how much that matters or how much we can do about it. Sound teaching in sound churches, philosophically grounded political rhetoric for those able to comprehend. Only Historic Christianity, Catholic and Protestant, is thick enough to serve. All of which is to say, we are not that far apart. I’m automatically drawn to someone using Greek for a substack moniker.
The problem is, that if the church, the community of believers, has a existential desire to continue as a people, then they are also a body politic. There is no escaping the political for the church.
Totally agree. All the concerns, problems, and pathologies of the larger society are seen in the church. It has ever been so— see the letters of Paul and the notes to the seven churches in John’s Revelation. Also, since we live in an ostensible republic, the political teaching in the Bible must be adjusted to match the regime. That sounds unbiblical but it is a part of wisdom to know how to apply principles to actual cases. That is a big part of the disagreement among Christians
Hmm. Very interesting essay. I wonder if this might be one of those fruits by which you know the vine is rotten.
It’s not so much that. There are many good people. It’s a series of historical developments in which this large segment of Christians developed a certain way of doing things that undermines the development of a leadership class.
This seems like a problem that will solve itself when the evangelicals naturally disappear.
Nondenominational Christians have and always will win the war. Sorry, not sorry.
What war is that? And are you sure you are actually winning?