I was invited to by The American Reformer to publish a more fulsome critique of Paul Kingsnorth's criticisms of the idea of Christian civilization. That piece is now up on their website.
Boy am I looking forward to this. PK is a wonderful speaker and thoughtful source of values and context in contemporary times. I welcome your thoughts Kruptos. Two men communicating and offering views that build on theories of original text is a fine thing. I hope this leads to more discussion and content. 🙏🏼
I was struck by this insightful take from your Am. Ref. essay:
"He draws a contrast between the idyllic Garden of Eden and the subsequent world of sin and then asserts that all the artifacts of human activity after the fall are the result of sin. This here, it seems to me, is his key error."
This is spot on. I think Kingsnorth exhibits a kind of Rousseau-ian reflex in the way he reasons about civilization, and technology as well for that matter. (I previously unpacked some of my own thoughts about his take on technology - link below.) His activist sensibilities sometimes overwhelm his writing - i.e. he tends to get a little carried away by his outrage and "outruns his punt coverage" as they say.
I'm rooting for Kingsnorth and his newly discovered faith. He's a gifted writer and has a lot to offer. But he might have been better served had some of these Christian publications waited a bit longer - for his understanding to mature - before offering him a platform.
I am following with great interest your debate with Paul Kingsnorth. How very fortunate that it has led you to write the article “Revealing the City of God” on the American Reformer.
Listening to you and reading your writing bring new concepts to my awareness. (Indeed, it goes far beyond that!) Reading this article has been a great help for comprehending certain theological structures you have touched on before, but delve into here with more explanation. It was a joy to read.
The body of believers (past, present and future) is the perfect subset of those who have their teleos in the city of Zion, the new heavenly city of Jerusalem. We can anticipate that features of life in God’s own city will filter back from that culmination in theosis to manifest in this kind of ghost nation that are not necessarily geographically or temporally bounded together. Another subset that will share an overlap with the group above is the church (the parishioners of various denominations across vast distances). Similarly, another set of people might be Christian groups or Christian leaders and their followers who congregate online. These groups are deemed “self-selected”. Or better, they are called by God.
On the other hand, a Christian community, nation or civilization is a varied grouping. Is there not room amongst such a people for an uneven application of the exigencies of the faith? Certainly there are signs pointing to God. (If only none would perish!) Certainly there is a baseline of what is permissible. Yet, not all are equally devout and there will be unbelievers.
It seems that the human induced danger in that situation is to run too hot or too cold. Too hot and those not called to the faith present deceptively or rebel. Too cold and the message is watered down and the faithful yearn for truth. Some men will be raised up to the kingly roles, others to the priestly. God himself will find his prophets.
Could you see a place in such a society for those men and women who wish to renounce a life of family responsibly and sacrifice for community to instead go to the monastery to lead a life of prayer and study? Do they not also produce Christian cultural artefacts?
Vance is a very enthusiastic supporter of back-to-the-past traditional Christian-ism, especially as defined by Opus Dei the applied politics of which are described in two recent books
Boy am I looking forward to this. PK is a wonderful speaker and thoughtful source of values and context in contemporary times. I welcome your thoughts Kruptos. Two men communicating and offering views that build on theories of original text is a fine thing. I hope this leads to more discussion and content. 🙏🏼
Hope it lives up to expectations!
I was struck by this insightful take from your Am. Ref. essay:
"He draws a contrast between the idyllic Garden of Eden and the subsequent world of sin and then asserts that all the artifacts of human activity after the fall are the result of sin. This here, it seems to me, is his key error."
This is spot on. I think Kingsnorth exhibits a kind of Rousseau-ian reflex in the way he reasons about civilization, and technology as well for that matter. (I previously unpacked some of my own thoughts about his take on technology - link below.) His activist sensibilities sometimes overwhelm his writing - i.e. he tends to get a little carried away by his outrage and "outruns his punt coverage" as they say.
I'm rooting for Kingsnorth and his newly discovered faith. He's a gifted writer and has a lot to offer. But he might have been better served had some of these Christian publications waited a bit longer - for his understanding to mature - before offering him a platform.
https://www.keithlowery.com/p/catastrophizing-ai
That was my thought too. But in his response to me in YouTube comments, he does not feel that is the case.
I am following with great interest your debate with Paul Kingsnorth. How very fortunate that it has led you to write the article “Revealing the City of God” on the American Reformer.
Listening to you and reading your writing bring new concepts to my awareness. (Indeed, it goes far beyond that!) Reading this article has been a great help for comprehending certain theological structures you have touched on before, but delve into here with more explanation. It was a joy to read.
The body of believers (past, present and future) is the perfect subset of those who have their teleos in the city of Zion, the new heavenly city of Jerusalem. We can anticipate that features of life in God’s own city will filter back from that culmination in theosis to manifest in this kind of ghost nation that are not necessarily geographically or temporally bounded together. Another subset that will share an overlap with the group above is the church (the parishioners of various denominations across vast distances). Similarly, another set of people might be Christian groups or Christian leaders and their followers who congregate online. These groups are deemed “self-selected”. Or better, they are called by God.
On the other hand, a Christian community, nation or civilization is a varied grouping. Is there not room amongst such a people for an uneven application of the exigencies of the faith? Certainly there are signs pointing to God. (If only none would perish!) Certainly there is a baseline of what is permissible. Yet, not all are equally devout and there will be unbelievers.
It seems that the human induced danger in that situation is to run too hot or too cold. Too hot and those not called to the faith present deceptively or rebel. Too cold and the message is watered down and the faithful yearn for truth. Some men will be raised up to the kingly roles, others to the priestly. God himself will find his prophets.
Could you see a place in such a society for those men and women who wish to renounce a life of family responsibly and sacrifice for community to instead go to the monastery to lead a life of prayer and study? Do they not also produce Christian cultural artefacts?
Oh absolutely. I definitely think the dedicated life of prayer and service should be a vocation for Protestants as well.
Great job on this!
Thanks!
Is this an example of the applied politics of living in the City of God.
http://www.thenerdreich.com/unhumans-jd-vance-and-the-language-of-genocide
Vance is a very enthusiastic supporter of back-to-the-past traditional Christian-ism, especially as defined by Opus Dei the applied politics of which are described in two recent books
OPUS by Gareth Gore
STENCH by David Brock