I am joined by Substack writer and Twitter poster Eugyppius and together we discuss the nature of the right in Europe and the role Christianity plays in European politics today.
apologies for the two audio blemishes. i realised later that these were on my end – my internet continued to drop out every 30 minutes or so all last evening.
Really good one and squares with many of my own observations as a fellow German. Americans talk about the "post-war consensus" but it's hard to imagine how tectonic the intellectual and political change was here after wwii.
Wrt Christians one difference might be that even the prewar secular right-wing had a strong mystical and Romanticism bent, which used to be semi-mainstream, extending even to academia. So you didn't have this die-hard atheism/materialism as in the Anglo world. Of course there were conflicts between traditional Christians and some of the more esoteric thinkers, but there was also dialogue and a shared outlook that was more organic, wholesome, teleological etc. That might be one reason why these hardened battle lines between Christians qnd seculars didn't develop to the same extent.
Also, in Germany (but also Britain, and France in a different way) there are only one or two mainstream churches intertwined with the state which makes Christian oppodition difficult (it's absorbed into the manegeriam state). We don't have all those protestant sects which in the US seem to exist outside the mainstream.
The US also had a Christian social teachings movement, during the early decades of the 20th century it created an administrative state to ostensibly fight on behalf of the poor, Woodrow Wilson was in many ways associates with it. Later the Mainline Christian churches were heavily involved in the Civil Rights movement. In the process of doing all this the Mainline Churches ended up secularizing themselves.
The difference with Europe is that in the US in addition to the Mainline Christian tradition, there was a separate Evangelical Christian tradition, associated with the backwoods and revival meetings. It is this tradition that the current American Religious Right came out off.
Great stuff guys! The insight about prewar classical liberalism in Germany as centrism and later, the non liberal right was a very clarifying description to deal with the US mid-wit idea that Stalin and Hitler were too much of the American left and right. Do it again soon!
apologies for the two audio blemishes. i realised later that these were on my end – my internet continued to drop out every 30 minutes or so all last evening.
It ended up being completely fine and perhaps a good reminder in this global world that there are limits.
Really good one and squares with many of my own observations as a fellow German. Americans talk about the "post-war consensus" but it's hard to imagine how tectonic the intellectual and political change was here after wwii.
Wrt Christians one difference might be that even the prewar secular right-wing had a strong mystical and Romanticism bent, which used to be semi-mainstream, extending even to academia. So you didn't have this die-hard atheism/materialism as in the Anglo world. Of course there were conflicts between traditional Christians and some of the more esoteric thinkers, but there was also dialogue and a shared outlook that was more organic, wholesome, teleological etc. That might be one reason why these hardened battle lines between Christians qnd seculars didn't develop to the same extent.
Also, in Germany (but also Britain, and France in a different way) there are only one or two mainstream churches intertwined with the state which makes Christian oppodition difficult (it's absorbed into the manegeriam state). We don't have all those protestant sects which in the US seem to exist outside the mainstream.
Good thoughts. Yes. That makes sense.
The US also had a Christian social teachings movement, during the early decades of the 20th century it created an administrative state to ostensibly fight on behalf of the poor, Woodrow Wilson was in many ways associates with it. Later the Mainline Christian churches were heavily involved in the Civil Rights movement. In the process of doing all this the Mainline Churches ended up secularizing themselves.
The difference with Europe is that in the US in addition to the Mainline Christian tradition, there was a separate Evangelical Christian tradition, associated with the backwoods and revival meetings. It is this tradition that the current American Religious Right came out off.
That is a good observation.
Tuning in just to hear Eugyppius' voice!
Yep, he's a substack giant! Fine writer, the most timely motto ever ("What we are witnessing...), and this is the perfect topic for him.
Love it!
Great stuff guys! The insight about prewar classical liberalism in Germany as centrism and later, the non liberal right was a very clarifying description to deal with the US mid-wit idea that Stalin and Hitler were too much of the American left and right. Do it again soon!
Thanks for the kind words. We plan on it, when the right topic comes along.
I waiting to hear you discuss Barzun
Great conversation! If you ever want to know more about Dutch modern politics or the political landscape, you can hit me up.
I may just take you up on that sometime.
Wow! What a great combination. Looking forward to listening.
Let me know what you think!
Very good conversation!
Thanks!